From Dog Breeding to Enterprise UX: A Conversation With Marko Dugonjić
On this episode of the Smashing Podcast, Vitaly Friedman speaks with Marko Dugonjić, Director of User Experience at SymSoft Solutions in Sacramento, California. Dugonjić’s path into design and technology is unconventional. In the early 2000s, he was a fitness trainer breeding dogs, building a hobby website with Microsoft FrontPage to showcase his kennel. The site relied on a frameset with four frames, and—by his own admission—was far from validating or accessible.
Curious about improving accessibility, he turned to web forums and W3C specifications, eventually learning CSS positioning and web standards. What began as a hobbyist’s obsession soon became a profession when a Zagreb-based agency, now known as Human Design, offered to pay him for his knowledge. After several years in-house and then running his own studio, he made the leap to the United States—a move initiated through a client connection rather than a planned career shift.
The Real Obstacle in Large Organizations
When asked whether UX has truly secured its proverbial "seat at the table," Dugonjić offers a nuanced view. The industry is in a better position than it was 15 years ago, but new challenges have surfaced, particularly for those working with enterprises, government agencies, and financial institutions—the kind of legacy organizations that have operated successfully for decades under existing structures.
According to Dugonjić, resistance to change isn't necessarily a matter of stubbornness. The sheer scale of large organizations is what makes transformation slow and difficult. It’s hard to influence every person in a sprawling corporate environment. His approach is to "strategically pick and choose your champions"—individuals who show up to office hours or volunteer ideas, no matter their current level of UX maturity. By nurturing those people and helping them act as mentors to their colleagues, change can spread organically across departments. Even a 1% improvement in performance or conversion, he notes, can make a meaningful difference.
Selling UX Through Measurable Proof
To win over senior management fixated on KPIs and financial outcomes, Dugonjić believes the most persuasive argument is a working, measurable example. His team at SymSoft always begins with baseline measurements—whether that's conversion rates, satisfaction scores, or load times—then tests and retests until they have hard data to tie the improvements back to actual dollar value.
A favorite tactic of his is launching a small pilot project first. He draws an analogy to testing a dangerous chemical: "Try somewhere where it won't mess anything up, like in a corner that nobody sees." A small, successful case study can do more for buy-in than large-scale proposals—and can gain credibility when scaled upwards.
On whether management approval is essential before experimenting, Dugonjić advises against waiting for the green light. Taking the initiative on a prototype outside the core workflow signals to leadership that you're proactive and self-driven. If the experiment fails, nobody needs to know; if it works, it becomes something to proudly present higher up, earning double credit for creativity and ownership.
Managing Scope and Estimates
Asked about preventing project delays and scope creep, Dugonjić draws from hard-earned experience budgeting for large-scale work. When an estimate is simply underestimated, the fault "is completely on us." A one-page contract eventually evolves into 50 to 70 pages once the nuances of research, tracking, and timing are baked into the process.
In enterprise settings, contracts typically include an unanticipated effort budget—often 10 to 20% of total project funds held as contingency. Another key is establishing consistent communication cadence. His project management director schedules weekly (or daily stand-up) meetings with clients, maintains a careful, continuously updated status report shared across teams, and never shies from surfacing risks early. Turning a progress signal from green to yellow at the first sign of a delay in client feedback, for example, prevents small issues from nipping beyond their control. It's a strategy that complements Vitaly's standpoint: educating clients early on why late changes are expensive goes a long way in avoiding them.
Advice for Career Growth and Salary Negotiation
For designers looking to climb the ladder or push for a raise, Dugonjić underscores the importance of "managing up"—understanding that a supervisor has their own responsibilities and pressures. Successful practitioners are those who are mindful of the entire ecosystem around them: peers in frontend, backend, marketing, or project management, and who genuinely take care to move everyone forward together.
A concrete way to stand out is to continuously nurture a culture of open communication. Share random ideas or drafts of pending work without waiting for a special moment or request. When nothing's happening, check in with your boss anyway. Regular one-on-ones establish the space for bigger asks down the road—whether it's to shift focus, pursue more impactful work, or negotiate a raise. And if it's time to look for a new job, being transparent about it during those conversations can preserve a professional relationship. As Dugonjić puts it, if your environment is hostile to new ideas—"if you hear crickets every time you have an idea—you should just change the company."
Adjusting to a Different Work Culture
Having crossed from Croatia to California, Dugonjić noticed notable contrasts. American organizations tend to place far greater emphasis on detailed processes and repeatability—structured frameworks with named tools and decision-making diagrams--while European workflows often treat "problem and solution" as sufficient steps.
In addition to these work style differences, one of the biggest revelations had little to do with process and everything to do with communication. California is a melting pot of cultures, and its version of a shared workplace language is far more low-context than what he knew before. In high-context cultures, meetings assume a culture-wide shared knowledge; you don't have to re-explain the last discussion. In a multicultural professional (and particularly Californian) environment, adopting more deliberate and precise communication is essential. Moving from monocultural Croatia to a state full of varied backgrounds and educational histories was a stark contrast.
Despite loving the access to nature California offers—he says everyday life seems geared toward families—he doesn't dismiss moving back to Europe one day, noting distances between everything in the U.S. are "a drag to even think about." Some things aren't better, he says, "it's just down to every person's personal preferences."
Hearing his journey, he wishes his younger self—the one breeding dogs in Zagreb—could learn to enjoy the ride more and be more patient. The world, he says, has a way of making things turn out fine eventually.
